Historical Commission Meeting Minutes - January 20, 2021

​Historical Commission Member Attendees: (7– Quorum)

• Lorraine Tindaro, Acting-Chair
• Mark Evans, Secretary
• Dawn Coughlan
• Paul Stephens

• Tony Wagner
• Catherine Callahan
• Patti DeFroscia

Historical Commission Member Absent (1):

• Leah Jennings (Excused)

Historical Commission Guests (3):

• Paul Mullin
• Mike Bedrick
• Tony DiSario
• Kathleen Hood

 
OPENING:
The meeting was called to order by Acting-Chair Tindaro at 7:04 PM, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance. Secretary Evans announced that the meeting was being recorded to expedite transcription of minutes.
Secretary Evans continued with Members Roll Call, and Introduction of Guests.
 
Approval of 1/20/21 Minutes
Chair Cathy Callaghan requested that mention of Bob Wise be removed from the 1/20/21 minutes. There was discussion, but it was decided that it was appropriate for it to be there.
PAUL S MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE 1/20/21 MEETING
SECOND BY DAWN C.
VOTE CALLED BY LORRAINE T
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
2021 Reorganization
Lorraine T called for Nominations for the position of Chair, and thankd Cathy Callaghan for her service as chair. Everyone applauded.
Cathy Callaghan nominated Lorraine Tindaro
Mark Evans Nominated Dawn Coughlan
Tony Wagner offered a second
Mike B asked who he was seconding, Lorraine or Dawn? He confirmed Dawn just as Patty DeFroscia added a second for Dawn C.
Hearing no second, Lorraine removed her name from consideration.
Cathy C asked if we needed Leah J present before moving forward with the vote. Since there was a quorum, there was no need.
MOTION MADE BY LORRAINE FOR DAWN C TO BE NAMED NEW CHAIR BY UNANIMOUS CONSENT AND CALLED THE VOTE
DAWN C ELECTED NEW CHAIR UNANIMOUSLY
Cathy C thanked Lorraine for being her Vice Chair and never missing a meeting, also Mike B.
Lorraine T passed leadership of the meeting over to new Chair Dawn C, who in turn thanked Lorraine for doing the preparation for the meeting, especially with so much business being considered
OLD BUSINESS:

1. EDGE’S MILL HISTORIC DISTRICT
   1. Mark E asked if Lorraine and Mike had reached out to Bob Wise as requested; they said that they had not. Mark expressed disappointment that they had not thought to pass the assignment on to someone else if they were unable to complete it.
   2. Dawn asked if we would be prepared to vote on recommending the District to the BOC after Mr. Wise responds to questions. It was confirmed that with more information we should be ready to vote on the revised RGA proposal.
2. SUB COMMITTEE REPORTS
   1. SPACKMAN FARM – Paul S
      1. Paul stated that he had not heard back from Chris Caba regarding  his insights on how to make this property a successful place for events. Dawn asked if he was the manager for Valley Forge event site? Paul confirmed that yes, Chris runs the Flander-Chase-Knox House. Paul asked if any of us know someone who does similar things, such as the mansion in Tredyffrin, perhaps we could contact them.

Dawn mentioned that Leah stated at a previous meeting that  Springton Farm hosts events and asked Patty D if she knew if they still did. Patty confirmed that they had in the past, but wasn’t sure if they still do. Paul was clear that all we need is some insight of what we would need to do to make Spackman desirable, to get someone interested by public offering, what we need to do to meet the local laws of PA, and how to market it effectively.  Paul S asked if we had found out anything about obtaining an insurance rider for a one day visit by Valley Forge. Mark E stated that he had reached out to Kristen, but with all that’s going on- budget season, Covid - did not expect to hear back right away but hopes to have an answer in February.

1. Paul asked Mark if there was an update of the Barn Roof. Mark apologized for not having the answer but would get it by the February meeting. Dawn said that she thought at a BOC meeting someone said the material wasn’t available yet.
2. Kathleen Hood arrived at that point.

 
KATHLEEN HOOD of Chester County Historic Preservation Network (CCHPN) GAVE A PRESENTATION ABOUT CCHPN and WHAT IT IS, ITS ROLE BEING TO PROVIDE BOTH INSPIRATION AND SUPPORT IN THE IMPORTANT WORK THAT WE ARE DOING. THE PRESENTATION RAN FOR 15 MINUTES, HIGHLIGHTING EXCITING UPCOMING EVENTS.  MS. HOOD WILL SEND PAUL S A COPY OF THE POWERPOINT, AND STATED THAT WE ARE WELCOME TO POST IT TO OUR WEBSITE.
 

1. MARKETING AND SOCIAL MEDIA – Tony W

1. Tony W reported that he had not yet heard back from Abbey regarding the Spackman Farm news article
   1. Mark E said he had contact info for a writer who is Historic Preservation focused and will provide by next meeting
   2. Mike B said he knows Mike McGann who founded Coatesville Times and he may be interested. Mark suggested that they reach out and connect him to Tony W
2. Mark mentioned that the website looks great

 

1. HISTORICAL PRESERVATION – Cathy C
   1. Cathy reported that she had emailed everyone some recommendations for our Hx Ordinance
   2. Mentioned resource inventory of New Garden that she saw at last year’s CCHPN luncheon
      1. “Shall” is the key word, and is missing from ours
      2. We need to add these items and wording to our resource list
      3. Paul S said it’s a good approach, we have time to get ready for the Zoning Taskforce. Putting things out there in a way we can all digest them in the process is great.
   3. Cathy said she was not sure why Leah was not in attendance, but that they had been talking about the Bondsville Mill District. They are moving along in their process with the Register, they filed after us, and that Leah was sad about that.
   4. Dawn C thanked Cathy for sending around her Hx Ord recommendations, commenting that it’s great to have them in writing.

 
NEW BUSINESS:
Mark E requested that we go out of order and revisit Spackman Farm Sub Committee as he had found his notes from the BOC meeting regarding the Barn Roof:
Waiting on the revised contract documents. Because of the change in material, the contract had to be amended, and the docs are “in the mail”. Once they are received, the project can get underway.
 

1. ZONING TASKFORCE/HX REVIEW BOARD/AMMEND CHARTER
   1. Mark E stated that the Taskforce recommendation will be refined down from the cumulative list coming in from Cathy and Leah’s sub com, and anything else the Commission wants to include. We will vote to individually approve each item, and then submit it to the Taskforce
   2. Mark E reported that the Historic Architecture Review Board(HARB) is a “bigger picture” idea that had grown out of a conversation with Paul S. Having the ability to designate local Caln properties that have historic significance, it might be worth exploring the possibility of amending the Hx Com charter to form our own HARB.
      1. Paul S stated that by State law the BOC would have to create the Review Board, but that it goes hand-in-hand with the local designation of historic places. The question arose if we designate it historic, does it have to be done with property owner’s permission? This will have to be researched. We could establish criteria or guidelines and maintenance work that goes into keeping a property up, so we would have a say in protecting the historic integrity and the architectural character of something we deem historic. Guidelines can be extensive or limited. 
         1. Dawn asked if he was referring to HARB, and if we need any kind of professional endorsement, or if we can make that recommendation to the BOC? Paul confirmed HARB and that we should be able to do it. It is authorized by State legislature for local communities to set these up. We can recommend to BOC that we form one.
         2. Dawn said that it would behoove us to have HARB, other townships have them and they have been very useful in protecting historic resources; she cited Upper Merion township as a HARB example. Would this be a part of our ordinance?
            1. Cathy said yes, our ordinance is pretty good, but could be much better, and that’s why she and Leah are suggesting more protective language like New Garden and E Brandywine Township ordinances contain regarding  distances between historic properties and proposed development, etc. 
            2. Paul S said those numbers set the criteria to invoke HARB review. We need to establish the guidelines first and that will take some effort. At the very least, we need to look at guidelines used elsewhere successfully. Dawn stated that is what Cathy is working on. Cathy said that Karen Marshall had been suggesting we get these things into our ordinance.
            3. Paul reiterated that we need the guidelines that allow us to tell them what they can and can’t do.
            4. Mike B read from the ordinance which reads “developed in a sensitive way to the needs of the community”. Paul S stated that language is too vague to be enforced in any way. Mark E said that the ordinance will be addressed as part of the Zoning Update, and it will not cost us anything. Paul S said that once the HARB is established in the ordinance we can develop the guidelines. Dawn closed the discussion by stating that we’re working in that direction and will be submitting it to the Zoning Taskforce
            5. Mark E added that as per a conversation with Paul S. we need to start thinking of our Caln historic resource inventory past the end of 19th century
               1. Dawn asked if the resource map was something that Patty D would like to be involved in? Patty said she has all of the docs put together previously by Historic Commission members Tom and Patty DeFroscia, Lois Demchak, and Doreen Jacoby, including a color-coded map. Mark asked if she had it electronically. She said no, but there was a copy at the Township. Cathy C said she has a map.
               2. Paul S asked if these things could be copied/scanned by Township. Mark offered to scan the documents if not. Paul said that having those documents puts us ahead of the game.
2. CASD PROGRAM: GARDNER – BEALE HOUSE
   1. Paul S described the Historic Preservation curriculum at CASH – 4 year program. He met with Joe Tassoni, the new teacher, enthusiastic about the kids. Goal is to do condition assessment and produce a video this semester.
   2. Paul S said that it would be helpful if we wrote a letter of support for them. Patti asked if he had spoken Lisa Doan-Harley, the originator of the course, whose ancestors came from Calne England, suggesting Lisa would be a great source of information on the House.
   3. Patti said the CASD had once offered the Historic Commission the building for $1. Paul S said it will require a lot of time and effort over the years. The class will put the time into it, but money will eventually come into play. He again recommended that we write a letter, and invite the class to present their video to us, and potentially the BOC (perhaps even the BOC send a letter of support). Dawn said she would draft something.
      1. Mike B suggested we reach out to local politicians Katie Muth and Dan Williams. Tony W will send the letter to both to solicit their support. Mark E asked if Mike B and Lorraine T would introduce Tony W to them. They agreed to do that.
      2. Cathy C asked if the students are allowed inside. Paul S said that wearing N95 masks they should be able to go in, but it’s up to the school. He added that maintenance is supposed to be going in to clean out accumulated junk.
   4. EXPLORE IDEAS FOR CALN
      1. Dawn said that E Brandywine does free programs that are very exciting. Dan Campbell representing a National Mills group was a guest speaker  and talked about Edge’s Mill as one of the few standing mills from that time period. Maybe in the fall/post Covid, we could put together one of these programs. She would like to work with Abbey on this.  She asked for suggestions of topics,  what the group thinks about this idea. Paul S said he loves it, and mentioned PA barns, and that we have a great barn at Spackman – it could get attention for us. There is a PA Barn Association.
         1. Dawn suggested that we keep this on the back burner and plan for the fall.
      2. Mark interjected that he recently encountered kids trespassing at Spackman Farm, and suggested we all try to keep an eye on the Farm, and call the Caln Police if we see anything. Tony W asked if there is signage, Mark confirmed.  
3. BUDGET
   1. Dawn asked if we had a budget approved? Paul M stated that it was and we got $750. $150 went to the CCHPN membership and we have a $500 balance.
4. VA HOSPITAL DEMOLITION PERMITS
   1. Mark said that he will call Ray Stackhouse in the morning.
   2. Dawn stated that she heard 2nd hand that where the doctors lived is slated for demolition because it was in poor condition and too far gone for affordable repair. We didn’t know about it. Paul S said that we would only have been notified of demo permit if it were in the historical overlay district. Paul M asked how many buildings are involved. Paul M googled it and found a document that listed the building numbers and their locations on the campus, it was dated June 2019. Paul S thought they were probably getting their money together to do it this year. Mark E asked how they could demo if it’s on the National Register. Paul S said that the worst they could do is remove the historic designation due to loss of buildings. He thought it was too late for us to get involved and questioned if the BOC or Hx Com received notification in 2018 or 2019. Mark E asked Lorraine T if she remembers this from the BOC. Dawn stated that Ray Stackhouse should have a record of it. Mark and Paul M believed there should be a record. Paul S said we could ask SHPA. Cathy and Lorraine said they did not recall any communications. Paul S said that there should have been a 106 through the SHPA, unless it only went between the Feds and the State, since the property is federal. When it comes to Historical Preservation, “you can’t win when you’re arguing with Churches and Hospitals because one is saving souls, one is saving lives, and all you’re doing is saving a ratty old building, and you can’t win that argument”. Mark asked if we should try to get it to the press and get attention, or would that make it more likely that they will try to get out of the Nat registry? Paul S said that the bigger concern is that they may be planning to build something new, and what’s that going to like? Dawn suggested that we divide and conquer.
      1. Mark reaching out to Ray S
      2. Paul S reaching out to Karen Marshall to see what info she has

Dawn asked if there was any other business. There was none. Mark noted that we had 7 members present for the meeting. Cathy and Lorraine congratulated Dawn on being elected Chair.
 
Dawn asked for a motion to adjourn.
Moved by Paul S, second by Mark E
Dawn called the vote.
Motion passed 7-0.
 
Meeting adjourned at 8:42 PM.